Comments on: Joe the Plumber and the Character of the American People http://wisejargon.wordpress.com/2008/10/20/joe-the-plummer-and-the-character-of-the-american-people/ INSIGHTFUL .... CONVERGENT .... FOCUSED Wed, 21 Oct 2009 22:25:19 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Venus http://wisejargon.wordpress.com/2008/10/20/joe-the-plummer-and-the-character-of-the-american-people/#comment-93 Venus Tue, 24 Mar 2009 15:11:45 +0000 http://wisejargon.wordpress.com/?p=81#comment-93 So now what are the answers? How do we repair? How do we "stop the buck here" so to speak before it plummits further down? Aside from voting for a candidate once every 2 to 4 years, what can the American people of various incomes do to empower and protect themselves? So now what are the answers? How do we repair? How do we “stop the buck here” so to speak before it plummits further down? Aside from voting for a candidate once every 2 to 4 years, what can the American people of various incomes do to empower and protect themselves?

]]> By: wisejargon http://wisejargon.wordpress.com/2008/10/20/joe-the-plummer-and-the-character-of-the-american-people/#comment-36 wisejargon Thu, 20 Nov 2008 02:44:10 +0000 http://wisejargon.wordpress.com/?p=81#comment-36 Andre also wrote: Try taking your $5000 tax credit from McCain and buy an individual healthplan. Good Luck. Ah, thanks for asking. There's a great market developing for Health Savings Accounts. Here's an article that describes that expanding, FREE MARKET DRIVEN, type of plan: http://www.aishealth.com/Bnow/hbd111308.html <b> Didn't take luck to find it. Just Google!</b> Cheers. :) Andre also wrote: Try taking your $5000 tax credit from McCain and buy an individual healthplan. Good Luck.

Ah, thanks for asking.

There’s a great market developing for Health Savings Accounts. Here’s an article that describes that expanding, FREE MARKET DRIVEN, type of plan: http://www.aishealth.com/Bnow/hbd111308.html

Didn’t take luck to find it. Just Google!

Cheers. :)

]]> By: wisejargon http://wisejargon.wordpress.com/2008/10/20/joe-the-plummer-and-the-character-of-the-american-people/#comment-34 wisejargon Wed, 19 Nov 2008 13:29:21 +0000 http://wisejargon.wordpress.com/?p=81#comment-34 Andre wrote: "The truth is the real mortgage crisis steams from three area. Arizona, California and Florida and get rich “flip em’” investors. What happened in places like Arizona, Florida and California is people were buying 2nd homes or investment home worth $150 but valued at $300k with little or no money down. So when they started to give them the correct value and they could not flip them, they just walked away." Lots of great commments in Andre's post, and I very much appreciate the time you took to post them! Hope others will respond. Just a short note on what Andre wrote above. I had a chance to visit a friend in San Diego in 2006. We have about the same square footage, but his house is (or was) valued at $600,000, while in Indianapolis, Indiana, mine is valued at about $130,000. He has mountains to look at, while I have grass to mow. :) Anyway, on the flight in, I sat beside a real estate agent and we discussed the market. He'd talked about the ups and downs of the pricing there in San Diego, and that confirms what Andre is saying. I am working on pulling together some info that tacks back on the various aspects of how we got here today - not that it will be the "end all and be all" on the subject, but so that anyone who wishes may follow the history of this. As I "roll out" this blog, you'll see that my goal is to provide links to other articles in the main posts I provide so that the reader can check for themselves if I am guilty, to use Andre's words: "when it comes to economics, just like the Bible, it can be manipulated to support both sides of the issue. "(By the way, I appreciate this caveat, as it serves as a great warning.) In that way, you all can be the judge if I'm "manipulating" or doing the best I can to shoot straignt. Happy blogging! Andre wrote: “The truth is the real mortgage crisis steams from three area. Arizona, California and Florida and get rich “flip em’” investors. What happened in places like Arizona, Florida and California is people were buying 2nd homes or investment home worth $150 but valued at $300k with little or no money down. So when they started to give them the correct value and they could not flip them, they just walked away.”

Lots of great commments in Andre’s post, and I very much appreciate the time you took to post them! Hope others will respond.

Just a short note on what Andre wrote above. I had a chance to visit a friend in San Diego in 2006. We have about the same square footage, but his house is (or was) valued at $600,000, while in Indianapolis, Indiana, mine is valued at about $130,000. He has mountains to look at, while I have grass to mow. :)

Anyway, on the flight in, I sat beside a real estate agent and we discussed the market. He’d talked about the ups and downs of the pricing there in San Diego, and that confirms what Andre is saying.

I am working on pulling together some info that tacks back on the various aspects of how we got here today – not that it will be the “end all and be all” on the subject, but so that anyone who wishes may follow the history of this.

As I “roll out” this blog, you’ll see that my goal is to provide links to other articles in the main posts I provide so that the reader can check for themselves if I am guilty, to use Andre’s words: “when it comes to economics, just like the Bible, it can be manipulated to support both sides of the issue. “(By the way, I appreciate this caveat, as it serves as a great warning.)

In that way, you all can be the judge if I’m “manipulating” or doing the best I can to shoot straignt.

Happy blogging!

]]> By: Andre http://wisejargon.wordpress.com/2008/10/20/joe-the-plummer-and-the-character-of-the-american-people/#comment-33 Andre Wed, 19 Nov 2008 03:26:28 +0000 http://wisejargon.wordpress.com/?p=81#comment-33 I would first say that I know you to have a brilliant economic mind but when it comes to economics, just like the Bible, it can be manipulated to support both sides of the issue. So I am going to address some issues with Joe the Plumber and our now "socialist state." Like another person, I too work for a Credit Union and prior ro that I had about 6 years in banking as a branch manager. We did some subprime lending and people lost their homes, but the big falsehood is that low-income housing and first time home buyers in the 70-150k price range are what caused the collaspe. The truth is the real mortgage crisis steams from three area. Arizona, California and Florida and get rich "flip em'" investors. What happened in places like Arizona, Florida and California is people were buying 2nd homes or investment home worth $150 but valued at $300k with little or no money down. So when they started to give them the correct value and they could not flip them, they just walked away. The Republican, specifically McCain, have tried to sell that they wanted to regulate Freddie and Fannie, but even if that is so...this goes against their entire platform. The Republicans are DEREGULATORS. They have been selling "smaller government and make the government get out of the way" since the 60'. Which brings me to the next point. The Evil Socialist Republic of the US...The greatness of the Republican Party is the fact that they have convinced many Americans to vote against their own interest with fear by using words like Socialist and Islamic Terriorist. Well the evil socialist by the Fox News definition includes most of includes most of Europe, the Netherlands and Japan. Find anyone of them to switch from their health plans to ours. GM and Ford would love a little of the socialism health plans that Honda and Toyota enjoy in Japan. When ever a group seek a service, you are always going to get a better deal. Try taking your $5000 tax credit from McCain and buy an individual healthplan. Good Luck. Islamic Terrorist. Chastised the Dem candidates for NOT using this term. He should have been kicked off the stage for using it himself. I was glad that the state department has also issued that this term no longer be used and the President has complied. Most of the people in this country would consider themselves a Christian. The US has by far the greatest homicide rate with firearms of any advanced country in the world. So do you hear Fox calling Americans like the Columbine kids Christian Terrorist? Or what about the guys that goes "postal" at work Christian Murderers? Of course not it would be absurd!! It would not be reflective of the principles of Christians and such language would unfairly classify ALL Christians as murderers and terrorist. Finally, back to the economic of it all. Businesses should do what they are designed to do; Increase shareholder return or simply increase profit. Businesses or individuals should not hinder impede their progress by wonderering if they are doing the right thing for the American people. That is the job for us, the community. The Government. The government must protect their people and in our case the interest of the US. They must ask, and we must ask, before the government takes action, who will this benefit and how will it impact our citizens. Here are two simple examples; The War in Iraq. Who did it benefit? We lost lives, destroyed our credibility in the world and now are forced to spend BILLIONS and for what??? So we can be dictated to by the hand picked government of Iraq, influenced by Iran, when we MUST leave. We have gained nothing and given so much. Ten years from now, Iraq will hate us and they with Iran will actually be a economic and military threat. Who gained? Halliburton, Iraq, Big Oil, Iran the biggest winner of all. Thanks Pres. Bush!!! The 700 Billion bail-out, to include Fannie Freddie, Lehman and AIG. Now they all want MORE money as well as US Auto industry. Who should have gotten it? Only American Auto and a Nationalisation of Freddie. AIG and the banks assets would have been aquired by smaller companies, but what would have happened if we would have used that money and gave it directly to our middle class in the form of a one time payment of 40k and refinance of mortgages at 5.5%. That would lower most monthly payments by $300-$600 per home owner. If their was a five year lock on their credit also, then what would consumers have done with the extra savings, you got it...spend it. What would be the result??? The malls would be packed now and this Xmas, businesses would lend money to other businesses and companies would expand to get their share of the extra cash flow in the market and the economy would hum. That would give us time to make corrections with our infrastucture, our global education gap, our burdensome healthcare system, reducing our military expense, funding alternative fuels. ...And we would have enjoyed a great economic boom, the old socialist way!!! I would first say that I know you to have a brilliant economic mind but when it comes to economics, just like the Bible, it can be manipulated to support both sides of the issue. So I am going to address some issues with Joe the Plumber and our now “socialist state.” Like another person, I too work for a Credit Union and prior ro that I had about 6 years in banking as a branch manager. We did some subprime lending and people lost their homes, but the big falsehood is that low-income housing and first time home buyers in the 70-150k price range are what caused the collaspe. The truth is the real mortgage crisis steams from three area. Arizona, California and Florida and get rich “flip em’” investors. What happened in places like Arizona, Florida and California is people were buying 2nd homes or investment home worth $150 but valued at $300k with little or no money down. So when they started to give them the correct value and they could not flip them, they just walked away. The Republican, specifically McCain, have tried to sell that they wanted to regulate Freddie and Fannie, but even if that is so…this goes against their entire platform. The Republicans are DEREGULATORS. They have been selling “smaller government and make the government get out of the way” since the 60′. Which brings me to the next point. The Evil Socialist Republic of the US…The greatness of the Republican Party is the fact that they have convinced many Americans to vote against their own interest with fear by using words like Socialist and Islamic Terriorist. Well the evil socialist by the Fox News definition includes most of includes most of Europe, the Netherlands and Japan. Find anyone of them to switch from their health plans to ours. GM and Ford would love a little of the socialism health plans that Honda and Toyota enjoy in Japan. When ever a group seek a service, you are always going to get a better deal. Try taking your $5000 tax credit from McCain and buy an individual healthplan. Good Luck.
Islamic Terrorist. Chastised the Dem candidates for NOT using this term. He should have been kicked off the stage for using it himself. I was glad that the state department has also issued that this term no longer be used and the President has complied. Most of the people in this country would consider themselves a Christian. The US has by far the greatest homicide rate with firearms of any advanced country in the world. So do you hear Fox calling Americans like the Columbine kids Christian Terrorist? Or what about the guys that goes “postal” at work Christian Murderers? Of course not it would be absurd!! It would not be reflective of the principles of Christians and such language would unfairly classify ALL Christians as murderers and terrorist.
Finally, back to the economic of it all. Businesses should do what they are designed to do; Increase shareholder return or simply increase profit. Businesses or individuals should not hinder impede their progress by wonderering if they are doing the right thing for the American people. That is the job for us, the community. The Government. The government must protect their people and in our case the interest of the US. They must ask, and we must ask, before the government takes action, who will this benefit and how will it impact our citizens. Here are two simple examples; The War in Iraq. Who did it benefit? We lost lives, destroyed our credibility in the world and now are forced to spend BILLIONS and for what??? So we can be dictated to by the hand picked government of Iraq, influenced by Iran, when we MUST leave. We have gained nothing and given so much. Ten years from now, Iraq will hate us and they with Iran will actually be a economic and military threat. Who gained? Halliburton, Iraq, Big Oil, Iran the biggest winner of all. Thanks Pres. Bush!!!
The 700 Billion bail-out, to include Fannie Freddie, Lehman and AIG. Now they all want MORE money as well as US Auto industry. Who should have gotten it? Only American Auto and a Nationalisation of Freddie. AIG and the banks assets would have been aquired by smaller companies, but what would have happened if we would have used that money and gave it directly to our middle class in the form of a one time payment of 40k and refinance of mortgages at 5.5%. That would lower most monthly payments by $300-$600 per home owner. If their was a five year lock on their credit also, then what would consumers have done with the extra savings, you got it…spend it. What would be the result??? The malls would be packed now and this Xmas, businesses would lend money to other businesses and companies would expand to get their share of the extra cash flow in the market and the economy would hum. That would give us time to make corrections with our infrastucture, our global education gap, our burdensome healthcare system, reducing our military expense, funding alternative fuels.
…And we would have enjoyed a great economic boom, the old socialist way!!!

]]> By: Jim Baughman http://wisejargon.wordpress.com/2008/10/20/joe-the-plummer-and-the-character-of-the-american-people/#comment-32 Jim Baughman Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:32:29 +0000 http://wisejargon.wordpress.com/?p=81#comment-32 As a recently retired professional who has been around the block a few times I would offer these insights which are not necessarily theories but practical suggestions: First we need to assess the list of issues we have in this country. Credit crunch, oil crisis (yes even though oil closed at $58/barrel yesterday), housing crisis, gorernment who cannot lead, but only try to react. Americans need to tighten their belts before they don't have pants on which to use the belt. As Christmas approaches, all we hear is how bad a shopping season it will be. How about we focus on the true meaning of the holidays regardless of your faith. And maybe this is the year to severely restrict our purchases so as to save some money for that upcoming rainy day. Look at the long term for our families. As far as the oil crisis is concerned, expansion of the hybrid/electric car development needs to occur. Unfortunately this can only be done at the present time overseas as our automakers don't have enough research capital to develop amything. GM just recently pleaded with Congress to "bail them out" as they "refocus". Their admission that they suffer from anal myopia is not news to most Americans. We have watched as they have steamrollered all attempts at development of alternative forms of automotive power in the last 30 years. This is due to the fact that there appears to be some sort of collusion between the Big 3, Congress and the oil companies. A modern version of the triangle trade. If GM would present, in concrete terms, what they plan to do about the mess they are in, ten maybe I would be more sympathetic. The fact that they once were a very powerful corporation who emplyed thousands of Americans doesn't give them a birthright to bail out. If I get in financial trouble and go to a bank for help, I would have to explain how I plan to get myself out of the mess (with the bank's help). So, GM put pen to paper, get some concessions from both executives and unions and let's get moving. The points in your essay regarding the lack of savings by Americans does point out not only the fact that the financial markets do not have that money to loan, but the families who are buying a second home, expensive luxury cars, big screen TV's, etc. Certainly the American dream must allow for these rewards after much hard work. But shouldn't they be paid for up front? There isn't hardly anything which can be bought on credit. It's interesting to see the lay-away plan making a comeback. This was popular in the 50's and early 60's particularly for big ticket items. The housing "bubble" was predicted to burst as long ago as 2005 (I'm sure there are those who felt it would happen before that). At this time there isn't much to do bt "hunker down" and get rid of as much debt as possible. With regard to our government, I feel most Americans either are not informed, or simply wih to ignore issues which will affect them. They are too busy buying stuff. Our last bastian of freedom is the right to vote. Maybe we need to do mor in the way of providing information to the masses. As a recently retired professional who has been around the block a few times I would offer these insights which are not necessarily theories but practical suggestions: First we need to assess the list of issues we have in this country. Credit crunch, oil crisis (yes even though oil closed at $58/barrel yesterday), housing crisis, gorernment who cannot lead, but only try to react.

Americans need to tighten their belts before they don’t have pants on which to use the belt. As Christmas approaches, all we hear is how bad a shopping season it will be. How about we focus on the true meaning of the holidays regardless of your faith. And maybe this is the year to severely restrict our purchases so as to save some money for that upcoming rainy day. Look at the long term for our families.

As far as the oil crisis is concerned, expansion of the hybrid/electric car development needs to occur. Unfortunately this can only be done at the present time overseas as our automakers don’t have enough research capital to develop amything. GM just recently pleaded with Congress to “bail them out” as they “refocus”. Their admission that they suffer from anal myopia is not news to most Americans. We have watched as they have steamrollered all attempts at development of alternative forms of automotive power in the last 30 years. This is due to the fact that there appears to be some sort of collusion between the Big 3, Congress and the oil companies. A modern version of the triangle trade. If GM would present, in concrete terms, what they plan to do about the mess they are in, ten maybe I would be more sympathetic. The fact that they once were a very powerful corporation who emplyed thousands of Americans doesn’t give them a birthright to bail out. If I get in financial trouble and go to a bank for help, I would have to explain how I plan to get myself out of the mess (with the bank’s help). So, GM put pen to paper, get some concessions from both executives and unions and let’s get moving.

The points in your essay regarding the lack of savings by Americans does point out not only the fact that the financial markets do not have that money to loan, but the families who are buying a second home, expensive luxury cars, big screen TV’s, etc. Certainly the American dream must allow for these rewards after much hard work. But shouldn’t they be paid for up front? There isn’t hardly anything which can be bought on credit. It’s interesting to see the lay-away plan making a comeback. This was popular in the 50’s and early 60’s particularly for big ticket items.

The housing “bubble” was predicted to burst as long ago as 2005 (I’m sure there are those who felt it would happen before that). At this time there isn’t much to do bt “hunker down” and get rid of as much debt as possible.

With regard to our government, I feel most Americans either are not informed, or simply wih to ignore issues which will affect them. They are too busy buying stuff. Our last bastian of freedom is the right to vote. Maybe we need to do mor in the way of providing information to the masses.

]]> By: Of Bail Outs, Student Loans, and the Paradox of Thrift « Wisejargon Publishing http://wisejargon.wordpress.com/2008/10/20/joe-the-plummer-and-the-character-of-the-american-people/#comment-25 Of Bail Outs, Student Loans, and the Paradox of Thrift « Wisejargon Publishing Thu, 13 Nov 2008 00:07:52 +0000 http://wisejargon.wordpress.com/?p=81#comment-25 [...] I have more to say on the whole “Spread the Wealth” idea in my blog post “Joe the Plumber and the Character of the American People.” [...] [...] I have more to say on the whole “Spread the Wealth” idea in my blog post “Joe the Plumber and the Character of the American People.” [...]

]]> By: Chris Mulkey http://wisejargon.wordpress.com/2008/10/20/joe-the-plummer-and-the-character-of-the-american-people/#comment-23 Chris Mulkey Sun, 02 Nov 2008 13:48:35 +0000 http://wisejargon.wordpress.com/?p=81#comment-23 Very interesting analogy regarding the blood supply in the body. And to your question, who is smarter..., I will answer my opinion in this way. I work in the banking industry. Actually working for a credit union. I would much rather work for a credit union these days than a bank for obvious reasons. However, we have completely transformed our approach to memberships who are struggling. In the past, if members were unable to make their payments it was make phone calls and send letters and if there was not response we recover our collateral. The way of doing business like that is outdated. With the economic conditions as they are, we have transformed the area into a "Credit Solutions" center. We are now identifying situations for the membership with workout opportunities. Why? Because of the same concerns we are hearing from Joe the Plumber, and hundreds of millions of other Americans. Because times are hard, the economy is down, options are limited, employment is reduced or eliminated altogether and the financial stability is not there. There is no question that Americans must share a part of the blame in getting to the point that we are at. Be it lack of responsibility of savings, overextending on credit, signing for subprime loans, etc. However, the total blame cannot and will not fall on the American people. The government made a decision to spend billions (B-I-L-L-I-O-N-S) of dollars to bail out wall street. Perhaps that bail out is to help us here on main street, but where does it end? It seems to me that socialism has been mentioned more in the last few weeks than in my entire life when referring to the American system. That makes me a little bit nervous. It is an interesting time, one tha I hope we survive. My hope is, regardless of who is elected, they uphold that trust and rely on God. Again, to answer the question that you asked, who is smarter a million Joe the Plumbers or a handful of Harvard trained people? I answer this way. Just the other day, those handful of Harvard trained people announced we were in a recession. Something that a million Joe the Plumbers have known for almost a year now. That pretty much decides who is smarter for me. Very interesting analogy regarding the blood supply in the body.
And to your question, who is smarter…, I will answer my opinion in this way. I work in the banking industry. Actually working for a credit union. I would much rather work for a credit union these days than a bank for obvious reasons. However, we have completely transformed our approach to memberships who are struggling. In the past, if members were unable to make their payments it was make phone calls and send letters and if there was not response we recover our collateral. The way of doing business like that is outdated. With the economic conditions as they are, we have transformed the area into a “Credit Solutions” center. We are now identifying situations for the membership with workout opportunities. Why? Because of the same concerns we are hearing from Joe the Plumber, and hundreds of millions of other Americans. Because times are hard, the economy is down, options are limited, employment is reduced or eliminated altogether and the financial stability is not there. There is no question that Americans must share a part of the blame in getting to the point that we are at. Be it lack of responsibility of savings, overextending on credit, signing for subprime loans, etc. However, the total blame cannot and will not fall on the American people. The government made a decision to spend billions (B-I-L-L-I-O-N-S) of dollars to bail out wall street. Perhaps that bail out is to help us here on main street, but where does it end? It seems to me that socialism has been mentioned more in the last few weeks than in my entire life when referring to the American system. That makes me a little bit nervous. It is an interesting time, one tha I hope we survive. My hope is, regardless of who is elected, they uphold that trust and rely on God.
Again, to answer the question that you asked, who is smarter a million Joe the Plumbers or a handful of Harvard trained people? I answer this way. Just the other day, those handful of Harvard trained people announced we were in a recession. Something that a million Joe the Plumbers have known for almost a year now. That pretty much decides who is smarter for me.

]]> By: Tom Humes http://wisejargon.wordpress.com/2008/10/20/joe-the-plummer-and-the-character-of-the-american-people/#comment-8 Tom Humes Mon, 20 Oct 2008 03:19:37 +0000 http://wisejargon.wordpress.com/?p=81#comment-8 Nice Site layout for your blog. I am looking forward to reading more from you. Tom Humes Nice Site layout for your blog. I am looking forward to reading more from you.

Tom Humes

]]> By: Stacey Derbinshire http://wisejargon.wordpress.com/2008/10/20/joe-the-plummer-and-the-character-of-the-american-people/#comment-7 Stacey Derbinshire Mon, 20 Oct 2008 03:00:11 +0000 http://wisejargon.wordpress.com/?p=81#comment-7 I just stopped by your blog and thought I would say hello. I like your site design. Looking forward to reading more down the road. I just stopped by your blog and thought I would say hello. I like your site design. Looking forward to reading more down the road.

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